王:那时国立艺专就有实用美术系吗?张:叫图案系,系主任是叶浅予,我去后慢慢改的实用美术系。我认为图案系太简单。国民党学校根本不重视这些东西,也没有教材,课程也很简单,就画四方连续、二方连续,完全抄日本的一套。我去了以后就想搞教材建设。那时准备成立工艺美院,批了点钱,我就经常带着教师去收买明式家具,买刺绣、纺织品、陶瓷,搜集资料,实在太没有教材了。那时张光宇也从香港来了,郑可也来了,六七个教师。我和张光宇就带着学生跑五塔寺、故宫、画明代的砖刻、石刻图案。这都是很形象的教材。另外我让学生画中国图案,画建筑彩画,要他们学这个东西,不能光画洋图案,光教洋图案。 Wang: At that time, there was a practical art department at the National Art Academy. Zhang: Department of Pattern Design, Dean of the Department was Ye Qian Yu, and after I went, I changed the Practical Art Department slowly. I think the pattern is too simple. Kuomintang schools did not attach importance to these things at all, did not have teaching materials, and the courses were also very simple. They painted the four sides in a row and the two sides continued in a row and completely copied the Japanese ones. After I went, I wanted to build teaching materials. At that time, I was ready to set up a craft academy and approved a bit of money. I often took teachers to buy up Ming furniture, buy embroidery, textiles, ceramics and collect information. There was so much no textbook. At that time Zhang Guangyu also came from Hong Kong, Zheng Ke also came, six or seven teachers. Me and Zhang Guangyu took the students to run the five pagodas, the Forbidden City, painting the Ming Dynasty brick, stone patterns. This is a very textbook. In addition, I asked the students to draw Chinese motifs and painted architectural paintings, asking them to learn this kind of thing. They should not just paint foreign motifs and teach foreign motifs.