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“剩女”不是新鲜事物,但这个话题如今却越炒越火,电影、电视剧、综艺节目、书籍、网络……放眼看去,全是它的身影。那排山倒海的炒作之势,在中国如此,在美国如此,世界皆如此。但“剩女”的确是个社会问题——为何这些条件优秀的女人,到头来却难觅一佳偶?前些日子,(美国)ABC电视台《晚间报道》栏目邀请诸位名人,组织了一次男女对话,旨在找出问题的答案。虽然它的话题集中在黑人女性身上,但这个话题与对话的价值,绝不仅限于一个种族。这场男女对话,针锋相对,处处透出男女之间思维的差异,很值得一听。
Vicky Mabrey (co-host of Nightline Face-Off ): Hello, Atlanta, and welcome to the Nightline Face-Off. Tonight we are going to find out why a successful black woman can’t find a man. That’s a topic that we talk about amongst ourselves. The guys talk about it with their fellas and the ladies are talking about it at the beauty shops. So, we’ve heard the statistics report that by age 30 only 50% of black women have tied the knot; that black women outnumber black men in college 2:1; and that there are almost 2 million, exactly 1.8 million more black women than black men. So, we’re asking, who’s to blame? I am gonna start right now with Mr. Jimi Izrael. Why do you think that women cannot find the man of their dreams?
Jimi Izrael (author of The Denzel Principle): There’s nothing wrong with having standards, right? But your standards have to be reasonable. And very often, some of these women, that are looking for men, you know, what they don’t understand is sometimes you have to be the person that you’re looking for. So, so, you’re looking for somebody that you aren’t. Then you’re sad because you can’t find the perfect man—well you’re not a perfect woman! And the only thing that “The Denzel Principle” says is like: look, sometimes you have to be the person you’re looking for. That’s it, you know, that’s it.
Vicky Mabrey: What is “The Denzel Principle”? What do you mean?
Jimi Izrael: Women are looking for men that don’t exist. They’re looking for this picture perfect
1)archetype, this ★Denzel Washington to come, pulling up to their house in a new Maybach-Benz with a trunkful of Godiva chocolates and a suitcase full of $100,000 bills. And it’s not gonna happen, it’s not gonna happen!
Vicky Mabrey: Sherri, is that what you’re looking for?
Sherri Shepherd (co-host of ABC’s The View, and author of Permission Slips): No, and none of my friends are looking for that. I didn’t know Denzel had a Maybach, but...
Jacque Reid (star of VH1’s hit show, Let’s Talk about Pep): I didn’t either.
Sherri Shepherd: No, I don’t think that our standards are too high. We should be looking for what we are. For me, I’m going: Gosh, a man that loves God, a man that loves his family, a man that gets along with his mother, a man that can support me as I will support him, a man that can fix my 2)rotisserie ’cause it broke. Um, you know, a man, I mean, here I got a five-year-old little boy, so a man that could come in and add to my son’s life, a man that doesn’t mind seeing me take my 3)wig off and help me take the
4)cornrows out my hair. Is that too picky?
Jimi Izrael: Wait a minute.
Sherri Shepherd: I mean you say it’s 5)TMI, but I mean
I’m just…
Jacque Reid: But a man also, a man also who will, who respects women and actually likes women.
Vicky Mabrey: You wrote in The Denzel Principle that too many women try to turn a man into a cross between their girlfriend and a 6)lapdog.
Jimi Izrael: Right!
Vicky Mabrey: Is that, dose that sound like what Sherri’s explaining?
Jimi Izrael: Well, yeah, I mean she’s looking for some man to help her take out her weave, really? Seriously?
Sherri Shepherd: Because you know…Yeah, really. Seriously. You know, because that’s the most intimate part of what I do. And I’m not gonna…
Jimi Izrael: Really?
Sherri Shepherd: Yeah, my girlfriends will help me. Yes, but if I am sitting at home with my man, maybe instead of, you know, playing the Xbox all day, I’ll play with you sometimes, I’ll play football with you, and you can help me take the cornrows out of my hair, I don’t see anything wrong with that kind of partnership.
Jacque Reid: You should be able to be who you are in front of your partner. (Sherri Shepherd: For real!)Weave off, weave on; I mean you should be able to be real at home. You want that fantasy?
Sherri Shepherd: Oh, you don’t want the real, you do want the 7)shallow?
Jimi Izrael: In my book, I just said me personally, it’s nothing personal against you, Sherri, it’s just, you know, me personally, I like a sister with natural, with a nice natural hairdo…
Sherri Shepherd: And you’ll get it if you help me take the cornrows out.
Jimi Izrael: Wait a second, Sherri. Okay, men are visual creatures, men are really visual creatures, we’re not that complex, so you want us to be able to switch channels from taking your weave out to being able to thinking of you as the hot woman we married, you know, really, you wanna us to switch that channel, is that reasonable?
Sherri Shepherd: You know what? You’ll get that, and you also, I want somebody that I can share the real with. I want somebody that can know that yes, I will give you the 8)glamour; yes, you can get a little bit of the freak, but yes, you can get some of the real. And yes, when those days are, that there’s no glamour you still will have a woman in your corner going, “Baby, I know they had put you down, but I am here, cornrows or a wig, I am here for you.”
Steve Harvey (relationship expert and author of Act Like a Lady, Think Like a Man): If Sherri has the point of she wants a man who is…can deal with the real of her, if his principle is we’re very 9)aesthetic people, we love the visual, there has to come an understanding. I can understand wanting the real, but in the reality of it, in your man’s DNA, he’s not built to take your cornrows out, nor does he want to. The fact that you want him to do it does not set aside the fact that that ain’t in his DNA, you think his showing his love to you is doing everything you want. Maybe you don’t know how to be in love. Could that be your problem? ’Cause in our DNA, nothing in our DNA has us taking out cornrows, please understand that. If you got a man in here that can cornrow your hair and take it out, that ain’t your man!
Vicky Mabrey: Hill, you talk about the 95-5 rule. 95 percent of the women chasing that high-up 5 percent of the men. You find that true?
Hill Harper (star of CSI: New York and author of The Conversation): 95 percent of us, 95 percent of the women are trying to date 5 percent of the men. That’s somewhat in keeping with his…what he calls “the Denzel Principle.” But 95 percent of the men are trying to date 5 percent of the women as well. So, but we use a different standard for what that 5 percent is. Men use a more aesthetic standard and folks will sit back and wonder why, “How come that guy he’s 40 some, 50 some years old, he’s trying to go after that 28-year-old.” That 5 percent in his mind, what that is, and then we look at his Denzel Principle the same thing. The flip side now and to talk about what Sherri was talking about, I wanna go back to her point. The…when I was doing research for the book and meeting and interviewing all these couples: folks had been married 70 years, folks that were 10)devoutly single, serial 11)monogamous, folks that’d been in and out divorce, etc. You know what you start to realize—this is what I started to realize, that’s why the book’s called the conversation—is that we as black men and black women aren’t communicating. And the reason why there’s so much misinformation, the reason why women have no clue what Steve just talked about, is because women spread misinformation amongst themselves, ’cause they’re talking a great deal about it, but they’re just talking with themselves, and to be fair, brothers do the same thing with each other. I’ll give you an example. For instance, if you go out—and I just found this when doing the book—when a brother who’s married, who’s happily married, shows up to a group with other brothers, he doesn’t just show up and say “Hey, my wife is so good. I’m so happy.” He’s just quite about it, right? But a brother who’s unhappily married he can’t stop talking about it. And so what happens if you’re a single brother like me? You’re hearing so much from the unhappily married brothers. But what I found out when I did the book, more brothers that are married are happier than the brothers that aren’t, so…but you wouldn’t think that if you pull most single brothers, if you say: “What is it like to be a married man?” Oh man. I’m sure it’s just like what my man said, “She’s always on my back…”
Vicky Mabrey: Well, is it that because people are used to…men and women are so used to having an adversarial relationship?
Hill Harper: No, I think. I do not think it. I think it’s because, like I said before, in many ways it’s not clear that black men and black women are even friends anymore. And what I mean by that is that the first thing that comes out of folks’ mouths cross-gender, we’re talking about the other gender, is always the negative first. It’s the blame game. It’s the he-say-she-say—even Jacque just did it. She ran down the negatives first and then she said, “Oh, but there are some good black men out there.” Right? And it’s almost a 12)subconscious, it almost happens subconsciously, and it happens everywhere. And brothers do the same thing. I mean, you can just listen to music and know that. You know, it’s one of my favorite quotes I came across when I did the book. It’s “The 13)feminine wants to be adored, the 14)masculine wants to be believed in.” And it’s not all together clear to me that black men are adoring black women, and it’s not always clear to me that black women are believing in black men.
维琪·马布里(《晚间报道》“面对面”栏目主持人):你好,亚特兰大。欢迎来到《晚间报道》“面对面”栏目。今晚我们来讨论一下,为什么一名成功的黑人女性找不到自己的真命天子。我们私下都在谈论这个话题。男生会与他的兄弟们殷殷讨论,女士们则在美容院里细语交言。我们手头有一些数据显示,跨入30岁行列的黑人女性中只有50%结了婚;在大学里,黑人女性与黑人男性的比例是2:1;而黑人女性的人数比黑人男性的人数多出大概200万人,准确一点说,180万。所以,我们不禁要问,问题出在谁身上?我现在先来和吉米·伊斯雷尔先生聊聊。你觉得这些女人为什么找不到梦中的白马王子呢?
吉米·伊斯雷尔(《丹泽尔法则》作者):有标准没什么问题,对吧?但是你们的标准必须合理。但是很多时候,有些女人,她们所寻找的男人……你知道,她们并不晓得有时候你必须成为与你想要找的对象相匹配的人。所以,也就是说,你在寻找的那个人其实与你并不相配。结果你会伤心难过,因为你找不到完美的男人——但你也不是完美的女人啊!而“丹泽尔法则”说的最重要一点就是:听着,有时候你必须得成为你所寻觅的那种人。就是这样,你知道,就这样。
维琪·马布里:究竟什么是“丹泽尔法则”呢?你想说的是什么?
吉米·伊斯雷尔:女人寻找的男人根本不存在。她们在寻找一个想象出来的完美模型,那位属于自己的丹泽尔·华盛顿出现,开着一辆全新的迈巴赫·奔驰,载着满车的歌帝梵巧克力,还拿着一个装满10万美元大钞的箱子,径直走到她们的门前。但这是不可能出现的,不可能发生的事情!
维琪·马布里:雪莉,那是你追求的吗?
雪莉·谢尔普德(ABC节目《观点》主持人,《请假条》作
者):不,而且我的朋友没有一个追求这个。我都不知道丹泽尔有一辆迈巴赫,
不过……
杰奎·瑞德(VH1电视台《真人秀:Pep的爱情》演员):我也不知道。
雪莉·谢尔普德:不,我不觉得我们的要求太高。我们应该去追求我们真正想要的。对我来说,我想要的是:天,一个信奉上帝的男人,一个热爱家庭的男人,一个孝顺母亲的男人,一个能支持我如同我也会支持他一样的男人,一个会帮我修坏了的烤肉架的男人。还有,你知道,我有一个五岁的儿子,所以我还想找一个能走进我儿子生命里的男人,他不介意看到我在他面前拿下假发,还会帮我把辫子解开。这些要求太苛刻
了吗?
吉米·伊斯雷尔:等一下。
雪莉·谢尔普德:我知道你可能觉得我说得太详细了,但我只是想说,我……
杰奎·瑞德:(我们想要的)男人,这个男人应该是一个尊重女性,而且打心底里喜欢女性的人。
维琪·马布雷:你在《丹泽尔法则》一书中写到,很多女性都想把男人变成她们的女性朋友和宠物狗的合体。
吉米·伊斯雷尔:没错!
维琪·马布雷:那就是,那个听起来跟刚刚雪莉解释的一样吗?
吉米·伊斯雷尔:呃,是的。我是说她真的想找一个能帮她解辫子的男人吗?是吗?当真?
雪莉·谢尔普德:因为你知道……哦,是的。当真。你知道为什么吗,因为那是我最私密的一部分,而我不想……
吉米·伊斯雷尔:真的?
雪莉·谢尔普德:是的。我的女性朋友可以帮我做。这当然没错,但是如果我在家,与我的男人坐在一起,那么或者,比起玩一整天Xbox游戏,我有时候也会陪你玩,我会陪你一起踢足球,那么你能可以帮我把辫子解开,我不觉得这种关系有什么不对的地方。
杰奎·瑞德:在你的伴侣面前,你应该做你自己。(雪莉·谢尔普德:真实的自己!)无论是解开辫子的时候还是编着辫子的时候。我是说你在家的时候,你就应该是最真实的自己。你们(男人)想要的难道只是一种假象?
雪莉·谢尔普德:噢,你不想要真实?你要的只是浅薄的假象?
吉米·伊斯雷尔:在我的书中,我说的只是我个人的见解。这不是针对你,雪莉,这只是,你知道,我本人的想法,我只想有个拥有一个自然发型的姐妹……
雪莉·谢尔普德:如果你帮我把辫子解开,你就可以得到这样一个姐妹了。
吉米·伊斯雷尔:等一下,雪莉。好吧,男人都是视觉动物,男人真的是视觉动物。我们其实没那么复杂,现在你们要我们能一方面帮你们解开辫子,另一方面把你们当成我们娶进门的惹火女人?我是说,真的,你觉得要我们在这两者之间相互转换,你觉得这合理吗?
雪莉·谢尔普德:你知道吗,你完全可以做到,你也可以,我只是想要有一个能接受真实的我的人。我想要一个人,他会说,好,我会赞美你;好,你有点疯疯癫癫也无所谓,至少这是真实的你;那么,当那些美好的日子过去,你再无光环,你身边还有个女人,她会说:“宝贝,我知道他们伤害了你,不过我就在这里,无论编着满头辫子还是戴着假发,我都在你身边。”
史蒂夫·哈维(情感关系专家,《像女人一样优雅,像男人一样睿智》作者):如果雪莉的观点是她想要的男人,能够容忍她的真实面,而如果他的准则是,我们男人都是视觉动物,我们热爱表象看到的东西,那么男女双方就必须达到一个共识。我理解(女人)想要真实的想法,但事实是,在男人的本性中,他并不是生来为女人解开辫子的,他也并不想这么做。你希望他能这么做并不等同于他就生来就该这么做。你认为他爱你的表现就是做一切你希望的事情,那么你可能并不知道怎么爱一个人。那么这是你的问题吗?因为在我们男人本性中,我们不会解辫子,请你们理解这一点。如果你在这儿能找到一个为你编辫子又帮你解开的人,那绝对不是你的男人!
维琪·马布里:希尔,你讲到了95比5法则。95%的女人都在追着最顶端的5%的男人跑。这是真的吗?
希尔·哈伯(《犯罪现场调查:纽约》演员,《对话》作者):我们中有95%的人,95%的女人总是试图跟5%的男人约会。这个也跟他(指吉米·伊斯雷尔)的……他的《丹泽尔法则》也有相似。但是,95%的男人同样也只想跟位于顶端的5%的女人约会。所以……不过,在说到5%时,我们的标准是不一样的。男人是用一种相对美学的角度来看女人。男人们会坐在那里,奇怪为什么“那个男的已经40多50岁的样子了,他还在追求一个28岁的女人。”他脑子里那5%,就是这样,我们现在回过头看他的“丹泽尔法则”,说的也是一样的东西。另一方面,我想说说刚刚雪莉提及的。那个……我在为我的书做研究调查的时候,见过、访问过很多对夫妻:有已经结婚70年的老夫老妻,有一心一意相处下来的夫妻,还有曾经离婚又再婚的夫妻,等等。这也是大家开始觉得——至少我开始发觉,为什么把书取名为《对话》——因为我们黑人男女之间几乎没有沟通。为什么会有那么多错误的信息,为什么女人对刚刚史蒂夫说的话毫无头绪,都是因为女人们总是在女人圈里散播这些信息,她们大谈特谈,却总是与同性讨论。公平一点说,男人也会做同样的事。我给大家举个例子。当大家一起出去——我在写书的时候发现这一现象的——有个兄弟结婚了,婚姻很幸福,他与大家聚会时不会说:“嘿,我老婆真是太好了,我太幸福了。”他对这个一言不发,对吧?但如果有个伙计婚姻生活不幸福,他肯定滔滔不绝地吐苦水。那么,如果你是像我一样单身的兄弟,会发生什么事呢?你会成为婚姻不幸的兄弟倾诉苦水的垃圾桶。不过在我写书的过程中,我发现结了婚的男人比起那些单身的男人更快乐。但是当你抓住很多单身男人问:“如果变成已婚男人会怎么样?”老天,我想他们不会说:“她永远支持着我……”
维琪·马布里:嗯,这是不是因为人们总是……男人和女人已经习惯了一种敌对的状态。
希尔·哈伯:不,我不这么想。我想那是因为,就像我刚说的,从很多方面来说,黑人男人和女人甚至无法再做朋友。我说这句话的意思是当人们说起异性的时候,通常第一句话都是消极的。这是个相互指责的游戏,你说你的,我说我的——即使是杰奎,刚刚也是这么说的。她先数了一批消极的因素,然后她才说:“哦,不过这个世界还是有些好的黑男人的。”对吧?这些行为都是下意识的,在下意识的情况下发生,随处可见。男人其实也一样。我说,你听听音乐,都能发现这一点。我写书时看到一句我很喜欢的引语,它就是“女人是需要被呵护的,男人是需要被信任的。”但是我完全看不出黑人男人在呵护女人,我也同样看不出黑人女人在信任男人。
Vicky Mabrey (co-host of Nightline Face-Off ): Hello, Atlanta, and welcome to the Nightline Face-Off. Tonight we are going to find out why a successful black woman can’t find a man. That’s a topic that we talk about amongst ourselves. The guys talk about it with their fellas and the ladies are talking about it at the beauty shops. So, we’ve heard the statistics report that by age 30 only 50% of black women have tied the knot; that black women outnumber black men in college 2:1; and that there are almost 2 million, exactly 1.8 million more black women than black men. So, we’re asking, who’s to blame? I am gonna start right now with Mr. Jimi Izrael. Why do you think that women cannot find the man of their dreams?
Jimi Izrael (author of The Denzel Principle): There’s nothing wrong with having standards, right? But your standards have to be reasonable. And very often, some of these women, that are looking for men, you know, what they don’t understand is sometimes you have to be the person that you’re looking for. So, so, you’re looking for somebody that you aren’t. Then you’re sad because you can’t find the perfect man—well you’re not a perfect woman! And the only thing that “The Denzel Principle” says is like: look, sometimes you have to be the person you’re looking for. That’s it, you know, that’s it.
Vicky Mabrey: What is “The Denzel Principle”? What do you mean?
Jimi Izrael: Women are looking for men that don’t exist. They’re looking for this picture perfect
1)archetype, this ★Denzel Washington to come, pulling up to their house in a new Maybach-Benz with a trunkful of Godiva chocolates and a suitcase full of $100,000 bills. And it’s not gonna happen, it’s not gonna happen!
Vicky Mabrey: Sherri, is that what you’re looking for?
Sherri Shepherd (co-host of ABC’s The View, and author of Permission Slips): No, and none of my friends are looking for that. I didn’t know Denzel had a Maybach, but...
Jacque Reid (star of VH1’s hit show, Let’s Talk about Pep): I didn’t either.
Sherri Shepherd: No, I don’t think that our standards are too high. We should be looking for what we are. For me, I’m going: Gosh, a man that loves God, a man that loves his family, a man that gets along with his mother, a man that can support me as I will support him, a man that can fix my 2)rotisserie ’cause it broke. Um, you know, a man, I mean, here I got a five-year-old little boy, so a man that could come in and add to my son’s life, a man that doesn’t mind seeing me take my 3)wig off and help me take the
4)cornrows out my hair. Is that too picky?
Jimi Izrael: Wait a minute.
Sherri Shepherd: I mean you say it’s 5)TMI, but I mean
I’m just…
Jacque Reid: But a man also, a man also who will, who respects women and actually likes women.
Vicky Mabrey: You wrote in The Denzel Principle that too many women try to turn a man into a cross between their girlfriend and a 6)lapdog.
Jimi Izrael: Right!
Vicky Mabrey: Is that, dose that sound like what Sherri’s explaining?
Jimi Izrael: Well, yeah, I mean she’s looking for some man to help her take out her weave, really? Seriously?
Sherri Shepherd: Because you know…Yeah, really. Seriously. You know, because that’s the most intimate part of what I do. And I’m not gonna…
Jimi Izrael: Really?
Sherri Shepherd: Yeah, my girlfriends will help me. Yes, but if I am sitting at home with my man, maybe instead of, you know, playing the Xbox all day, I’ll play with you sometimes, I’ll play football with you, and you can help me take the cornrows out of my hair, I don’t see anything wrong with that kind of partnership.
Jacque Reid: You should be able to be who you are in front of your partner. (Sherri Shepherd: For real!)Weave off, weave on; I mean you should be able to be real at home. You want that fantasy?
Sherri Shepherd: Oh, you don’t want the real, you do want the 7)shallow?
Jimi Izrael: In my book, I just said me personally, it’s nothing personal against you, Sherri, it’s just, you know, me personally, I like a sister with natural, with a nice natural hairdo…
Sherri Shepherd: And you’ll get it if you help me take the cornrows out.
Jimi Izrael: Wait a second, Sherri. Okay, men are visual creatures, men are really visual creatures, we’re not that complex, so you want us to be able to switch channels from taking your weave out to being able to thinking of you as the hot woman we married, you know, really, you wanna us to switch that channel, is that reasonable?
Sherri Shepherd: You know what? You’ll get that, and you also, I want somebody that I can share the real with. I want somebody that can know that yes, I will give you the 8)glamour; yes, you can get a little bit of the freak, but yes, you can get some of the real. And yes, when those days are, that there’s no glamour you still will have a woman in your corner going, “Baby, I know they had put you down, but I am here, cornrows or a wig, I am here for you.”
Steve Harvey (relationship expert and author of Act Like a Lady, Think Like a Man): If Sherri has the point of she wants a man who is…can deal with the real of her, if his principle is we’re very 9)aesthetic people, we love the visual, there has to come an understanding. I can understand wanting the real, but in the reality of it, in your man’s DNA, he’s not built to take your cornrows out, nor does he want to. The fact that you want him to do it does not set aside the fact that that ain’t in his DNA, you think his showing his love to you is doing everything you want. Maybe you don’t know how to be in love. Could that be your problem? ’Cause in our DNA, nothing in our DNA has us taking out cornrows, please understand that. If you got a man in here that can cornrow your hair and take it out, that ain’t your man!
Vicky Mabrey: Hill, you talk about the 95-5 rule. 95 percent of the women chasing that high-up 5 percent of the men. You find that true?
Hill Harper (star of CSI: New York and author of The Conversation): 95 percent of us, 95 percent of the women are trying to date 5 percent of the men. That’s somewhat in keeping with his…what he calls “the Denzel Principle.” But 95 percent of the men are trying to date 5 percent of the women as well. So, but we use a different standard for what that 5 percent is. Men use a more aesthetic standard and folks will sit back and wonder why, “How come that guy he’s 40 some, 50 some years old, he’s trying to go after that 28-year-old.” That 5 percent in his mind, what that is, and then we look at his Denzel Principle the same thing. The flip side now and to talk about what Sherri was talking about, I wanna go back to her point. The…when I was doing research for the book and meeting and interviewing all these couples: folks had been married 70 years, folks that were 10)devoutly single, serial 11)monogamous, folks that’d been in and out divorce, etc. You know what you start to realize—this is what I started to realize, that’s why the book’s called the conversation—is that we as black men and black women aren’t communicating. And the reason why there’s so much misinformation, the reason why women have no clue what Steve just talked about, is because women spread misinformation amongst themselves, ’cause they’re talking a great deal about it, but they’re just talking with themselves, and to be fair, brothers do the same thing with each other. I’ll give you an example. For instance, if you go out—and I just found this when doing the book—when a brother who’s married, who’s happily married, shows up to a group with other brothers, he doesn’t just show up and say “Hey, my wife is so good. I’m so happy.” He’s just quite about it, right? But a brother who’s unhappily married he can’t stop talking about it. And so what happens if you’re a single brother like me? You’re hearing so much from the unhappily married brothers. But what I found out when I did the book, more brothers that are married are happier than the brothers that aren’t, so…but you wouldn’t think that if you pull most single brothers, if you say: “What is it like to be a married man?” Oh man. I’m sure it’s just like what my man said, “She’s always on my back…”
Vicky Mabrey: Well, is it that because people are used to…men and women are so used to having an adversarial relationship?
Hill Harper: No, I think. I do not think it. I think it’s because, like I said before, in many ways it’s not clear that black men and black women are even friends anymore. And what I mean by that is that the first thing that comes out of folks’ mouths cross-gender, we’re talking about the other gender, is always the negative first. It’s the blame game. It’s the he-say-she-say—even Jacque just did it. She ran down the negatives first and then she said, “Oh, but there are some good black men out there.” Right? And it’s almost a 12)subconscious, it almost happens subconsciously, and it happens everywhere. And brothers do the same thing. I mean, you can just listen to music and know that. You know, it’s one of my favorite quotes I came across when I did the book. It’s “The 13)feminine wants to be adored, the 14)masculine wants to be believed in.” And it’s not all together clear to me that black men are adoring black women, and it’s not always clear to me that black women are believing in black men.
维琪·马布里(《晚间报道》“面对面”栏目主持人):你好,亚特兰大。欢迎来到《晚间报道》“面对面”栏目。今晚我们来讨论一下,为什么一名成功的黑人女性找不到自己的真命天子。我们私下都在谈论这个话题。男生会与他的兄弟们殷殷讨论,女士们则在美容院里细语交言。我们手头有一些数据显示,跨入30岁行列的黑人女性中只有50%结了婚;在大学里,黑人女性与黑人男性的比例是2:1;而黑人女性的人数比黑人男性的人数多出大概200万人,准确一点说,180万。所以,我们不禁要问,问题出在谁身上?我现在先来和吉米·伊斯雷尔先生聊聊。你觉得这些女人为什么找不到梦中的白马王子呢?
吉米·伊斯雷尔(《丹泽尔法则》作者):有标准没什么问题,对吧?但是你们的标准必须合理。但是很多时候,有些女人,她们所寻找的男人……你知道,她们并不晓得有时候你必须成为与你想要找的对象相匹配的人。所以,也就是说,你在寻找的那个人其实与你并不相配。结果你会伤心难过,因为你找不到完美的男人——但你也不是完美的女人啊!而“丹泽尔法则”说的最重要一点就是:听着,有时候你必须得成为你所寻觅的那种人。就是这样,你知道,就这样。
维琪·马布里:究竟什么是“丹泽尔法则”呢?你想说的是什么?
吉米·伊斯雷尔:女人寻找的男人根本不存在。她们在寻找一个想象出来的完美模型,那位属于自己的丹泽尔·华盛顿出现,开着一辆全新的迈巴赫·奔驰,载着满车的歌帝梵巧克力,还拿着一个装满10万美元大钞的箱子,径直走到她们的门前。但这是不可能出现的,不可能发生的事情!
维琪·马布里:雪莉,那是你追求的吗?
雪莉·谢尔普德(ABC节目《观点》主持人,《请假条》作
者):不,而且我的朋友没有一个追求这个。我都不知道丹泽尔有一辆迈巴赫,
不过……
杰奎·瑞德(VH1电视台《真人秀:Pep的爱情》演员):我也不知道。
雪莉·谢尔普德:不,我不觉得我们的要求太高。我们应该去追求我们真正想要的。对我来说,我想要的是:天,一个信奉上帝的男人,一个热爱家庭的男人,一个孝顺母亲的男人,一个能支持我如同我也会支持他一样的男人,一个会帮我修坏了的烤肉架的男人。还有,你知道,我有一个五岁的儿子,所以我还想找一个能走进我儿子生命里的男人,他不介意看到我在他面前拿下假发,还会帮我把辫子解开。这些要求太苛刻
了吗?
吉米·伊斯雷尔:等一下。
雪莉·谢尔普德:我知道你可能觉得我说得太详细了,但我只是想说,我……
杰奎·瑞德:(我们想要的)男人,这个男人应该是一个尊重女性,而且打心底里喜欢女性的人。
维琪·马布雷:你在《丹泽尔法则》一书中写到,很多女性都想把男人变成她们的女性朋友和宠物狗的合体。
吉米·伊斯雷尔:没错!
维琪·马布雷:那就是,那个听起来跟刚刚雪莉解释的一样吗?
吉米·伊斯雷尔:呃,是的。我是说她真的想找一个能帮她解辫子的男人吗?是吗?当真?
雪莉·谢尔普德:因为你知道……哦,是的。当真。你知道为什么吗,因为那是我最私密的一部分,而我不想……
吉米·伊斯雷尔:真的?
雪莉·谢尔普德:是的。我的女性朋友可以帮我做。这当然没错,但是如果我在家,与我的男人坐在一起,那么或者,比起玩一整天Xbox游戏,我有时候也会陪你玩,我会陪你一起踢足球,那么你能可以帮我把辫子解开,我不觉得这种关系有什么不对的地方。
杰奎·瑞德:在你的伴侣面前,你应该做你自己。(雪莉·谢尔普德:真实的自己!)无论是解开辫子的时候还是编着辫子的时候。我是说你在家的时候,你就应该是最真实的自己。你们(男人)想要的难道只是一种假象?
雪莉·谢尔普德:噢,你不想要真实?你要的只是浅薄的假象?
吉米·伊斯雷尔:在我的书中,我说的只是我个人的见解。这不是针对你,雪莉,这只是,你知道,我本人的想法,我只想有个拥有一个自然发型的姐妹……
雪莉·谢尔普德:如果你帮我把辫子解开,你就可以得到这样一个姐妹了。
吉米·伊斯雷尔:等一下,雪莉。好吧,男人都是视觉动物,男人真的是视觉动物。我们其实没那么复杂,现在你们要我们能一方面帮你们解开辫子,另一方面把你们当成我们娶进门的惹火女人?我是说,真的,你觉得要我们在这两者之间相互转换,你觉得这合理吗?
雪莉·谢尔普德:你知道吗,你完全可以做到,你也可以,我只是想要有一个能接受真实的我的人。我想要一个人,他会说,好,我会赞美你;好,你有点疯疯癫癫也无所谓,至少这是真实的你;那么,当那些美好的日子过去,你再无光环,你身边还有个女人,她会说:“宝贝,我知道他们伤害了你,不过我就在这里,无论编着满头辫子还是戴着假发,我都在你身边。”
史蒂夫·哈维(情感关系专家,《像女人一样优雅,像男人一样睿智》作者):如果雪莉的观点是她想要的男人,能够容忍她的真实面,而如果他的准则是,我们男人都是视觉动物,我们热爱表象看到的东西,那么男女双方就必须达到一个共识。我理解(女人)想要真实的想法,但事实是,在男人的本性中,他并不是生来为女人解开辫子的,他也并不想这么做。你希望他能这么做并不等同于他就生来就该这么做。你认为他爱你的表现就是做一切你希望的事情,那么你可能并不知道怎么爱一个人。那么这是你的问题吗?因为在我们男人本性中,我们不会解辫子,请你们理解这一点。如果你在这儿能找到一个为你编辫子又帮你解开的人,那绝对不是你的男人!
维琪·马布里:希尔,你讲到了95比5法则。95%的女人都在追着最顶端的5%的男人跑。这是真的吗?
希尔·哈伯(《犯罪现场调查:纽约》演员,《对话》作者):我们中有95%的人,95%的女人总是试图跟5%的男人约会。这个也跟他(指吉米·伊斯雷尔)的……他的《丹泽尔法则》也有相似。但是,95%的男人同样也只想跟位于顶端的5%的女人约会。所以……不过,在说到5%时,我们的标准是不一样的。男人是用一种相对美学的角度来看女人。男人们会坐在那里,奇怪为什么“那个男的已经40多50岁的样子了,他还在追求一个28岁的女人。”他脑子里那5%,就是这样,我们现在回过头看他的“丹泽尔法则”,说的也是一样的东西。另一方面,我想说说刚刚雪莉提及的。那个……我在为我的书做研究调查的时候,见过、访问过很多对夫妻:有已经结婚70年的老夫老妻,有一心一意相处下来的夫妻,还有曾经离婚又再婚的夫妻,等等。这也是大家开始觉得——至少我开始发觉,为什么把书取名为《对话》——因为我们黑人男女之间几乎没有沟通。为什么会有那么多错误的信息,为什么女人对刚刚史蒂夫说的话毫无头绪,都是因为女人们总是在女人圈里散播这些信息,她们大谈特谈,却总是与同性讨论。公平一点说,男人也会做同样的事。我给大家举个例子。当大家一起出去——我在写书的时候发现这一现象的——有个兄弟结婚了,婚姻很幸福,他与大家聚会时不会说:“嘿,我老婆真是太好了,我太幸福了。”他对这个一言不发,对吧?但如果有个伙计婚姻生活不幸福,他肯定滔滔不绝地吐苦水。那么,如果你是像我一样单身的兄弟,会发生什么事呢?你会成为婚姻不幸的兄弟倾诉苦水的垃圾桶。不过在我写书的过程中,我发现结了婚的男人比起那些单身的男人更快乐。但是当你抓住很多单身男人问:“如果变成已婚男人会怎么样?”老天,我想他们不会说:“她永远支持着我……”
维琪·马布里:嗯,这是不是因为人们总是……男人和女人已经习惯了一种敌对的状态。
希尔·哈伯:不,我不这么想。我想那是因为,就像我刚说的,从很多方面来说,黑人男人和女人甚至无法再做朋友。我说这句话的意思是当人们说起异性的时候,通常第一句话都是消极的。这是个相互指责的游戏,你说你的,我说我的——即使是杰奎,刚刚也是这么说的。她先数了一批消极的因素,然后她才说:“哦,不过这个世界还是有些好的黑男人的。”对吧?这些行为都是下意识的,在下意识的情况下发生,随处可见。男人其实也一样。我说,你听听音乐,都能发现这一点。我写书时看到一句我很喜欢的引语,它就是“女人是需要被呵护的,男人是需要被信任的。”但是我完全看不出黑人男人在呵护女人,我也同样看不出黑人女人在信任男人。