《画刊》:你如何看待作为一场群众运动的“八五”美术新潮?吕澎:这其实是一个需要很深入讨论的问题。什么是群众性运动?这个词很容易掩盖那个时候的一些基本情况。什么基本情况呢?就是1978年十二届三中全会之后,执政党把经济建设而不是阶级斗争作为一个中心来作为国家发展的基本目标,这是一个巨大的转变。为什么是巨大的转变呢?因为之前每个人都在紧张地参加政治斗争,而且是非常狭隘的斗争,我们回头去看其实是值得 “Pictorial”: How do you think of the “85” art trend as a mass movement? Lu Peng: This is actually a question that needs to be discussed in great depth. What is mass movement? The term can easily cover up some of the basic conditions at that time. What is the basic situation? After the Third Plenary Session of the 12th CPC Central Committee in 1978, the ruling party took economic development as the center instead of class struggle as the basic goal of national development. This is a tremendous change. Why is it a huge shift? Because everyone was engaged in an intense political battle before and was a very narrow fight, it is worth looking back